CCD Users and binning 2x

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Rudeviewer
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CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:37 pm

So i have my first go last night at binning 2x. My 8300 sensor did not bloom that stars which i have heard so much about and have actually thought i saw in RGB subs, but not with the OIII i took. There is definitely more signal there, however i did notice a big increase in noise, and the visibility of hot pixels. So it sort of tells me that you can get more signal but also may have just as well spent the same amount of time capturing the data as doing 1x just to have sigma stacking remove the artifacts.

That being said, I only did 4 subs at 20 minutes a piece 2x on my 2nd panel of the tadpoles. There was lots of hot pixels there still since i didn't have enough subs to make it work properly, however, since this was my trial of getting what data i could and then blurring it enough that it wasn't noticeable just like one would do to the RGB data and use the Lum to clean it out and add the details back. This time i used the HA as my LUM file and also had the HA on the RED channel and the OIII on the blue channel and also added both into other channels using the SHO script in pixinsight.

Not too bad for a first trial. I will post up the picture when i get off work tonight, but needed to get this out of my head, lol. It does work just takes patience and the signal is definitely more noticeable.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Doug » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:59 pm

Let me know how that goes. I've only tried RGB @ 2X a handful of times and it didn't seem like it provided much more signal. In theory it should, but, I didn't notice it much. Interesting you found more signal in NB filters...that may be beneficial.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:53 pm

So this is a very quick process done over my lunch hour. HA mapped to Red and OIII mapped to blue and green. This is only 4 subs of OIII at 900s 2x2 bin. and the HA was 1x1 binned at 1200s. I had to blue the OIIO since I had a small amnt of subs. If i can find out how to get everything setup for bin 2x2 should be able to get more of those faints that barely show up on things.
MIXSHO_AIP1_PS.jpg
MIXSHO_AIP1_PS.jpg (232.64 KiB) Viewed 14686 times
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:01 pm

Ok here is the OIII subs. The first one is 1200s Bin 1x1....
L_OIII_2017-01-17_23-22-49_.jpg
L_OIII_2017-01-17_23-22-49_.jpg (234.42 KiB) Viewed 14686 times
This one is the 900s 2x2 bin.....
L_OIII_2017-01-17_22-21-36_.jpg
L_OIII_2017-01-17_22-21-36_.jpg (229.65 KiB) Viewed 14686 times
I think the 2x has more signal there for a shorter time, hence i can gather more data faster......i think lol.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Doug » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:26 pm

Yeah, it looks like the 2X2 has more contrast too. Interesting, I never thought about binning NB.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:28 pm

There is a loss of resolution so i basically scale the 2x2 to image to match the 1x1 HA and process from there.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Doug » Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:55 pm

Rudeviewer wrote:There is a loss of resolution so i basically scale the 2x2 to image to match the 1x1 HA and process from there.
Right, that's why I've mostly done 1X1 to avoid scaling. But I do see the difference in your examples. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:56 am

Scaling is the easy part in pixinsight. I find that while using the HA as a lum, you don't see any of the results of loss of resolution, so i may continue to use this for gathering OIII and SII.

Now i just need to find out how to find some different objects in the sky, which means getting a stellarium program working properly.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by gardenfish » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:03 am

Is there a video or tutorial anywhere on scaling in PI?
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:55 am

Not that i have seen , but you basically use the 1x1 image as the reference and then choose the bm 2x2 as the one to scale.
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by cgome004 » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:53 am

Hi Zach, what I do for targets that are not common of are not in my data base, is I go to http://www.sky-map.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and type in the target. while you hover over the target on the upper right hand corner you will see the coordinates and as you move the mouse they change. I find where the center of my frame would be and then just input those coordinates manually using the hand controller. Before slewing to the target, I do a 1 star alignment to the nearest star to my target (usually withing the constellation) and it is usually pretty accurate. I with then take a quick image to see the star configuration and look for star patters that are easily recognizable and then compare it to sky-map to see if I need to do any framing adjustments.

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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rrowe » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:28 am

what a cool site. Thanks Chris!!

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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:40 am

Yeah really good site there i will be using this for sure!
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by DkN » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:15 am

Interesting experiment. For the sake of a good conversation I'd like to take an opposing view. Not meant to be negative. I may be wrong but I think the reason binning the RGB in a LRGB image is that the L contains a sum of the RGB data. NB filters allow different wavelengths just like the RGB. But since there is no NB L (a filter that allows the 3 frequencies Ha, Oiii, and SII in) I believe in the end you are losing detail in the binned filter lines that can not be recovered using Ha as a detail layer. I'm still interested in the results but my expectation is that you will be losing 1/2 or 2/3 of your detail (depending if it's a Bi- or Tri-color image.)
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by Rudeviewer » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:25 am

That could be why HA lrgb has become popular.....just a guess..
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Re: CCD Users and binning 2x

Post by cgome004 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:17 am

I see what you mean Jeff but I think with narrowband filters, choosing a particular filter as your Lum will express the alternate desired details of that filter and although you are not getting the sum of all the filters, you are purposely doing so to reveal those details seen only in that wavelength. Getting the OIII data only serves as a mean to generate a color image and synthetic channels.

I still shoot the OIII data bin 1x1. I find it keeps the star sizes a bit more uniform between the filters. For for my bicolor routine that I have been using, I have always used the Ha as the L as if I was doing an LRGB image. All of the following images are examples where I used the Ha for the Lum layer. As for me, I don't see the loss of detail, but then again, most of these are shot with the RC8 which will naturally show a lot of the details. The one shot with the SV70T turned out pretty good too, so IDK... could it be the filters and the narrowband width I'm using? I know that going from a 7nm to a 5nm you see significant increase in detail and contrast and if I were to jump from my 5nm to a 3nm I would get even more contrast and detail. The reason I use the Ha and not the OIII as the luminance is because naturally the Ha data is full of detail and is crisp and clean. I think this technique will vary from target to target but I assume it would work well with any target showing good Ha and OIII signal.

https://www.astrobin.com/full/282569/C/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.astrobin.com/full/281485/0/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.astrobin.com/full/281382/C/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.astrobin.com/full/283642/B/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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